Litnet

Ons paradoksale Neelsie, soos gewoonlik met enige onderwerp deur enigeen geskryf, is hy vinnig om sy sê te wil sê rakende enige onderwerp, die meeste waarvan hy nie die vaagste benul van het nie. Vir elke onderwerp soek hy op die internet, selfs die woordeboek, ‘n tee-antwoord, en die eerste wat hy kry, sodanige skakel gee hy vinnig aan soos hierbo, en dit in hierdie geval van iemand wat nie as Egiptoloog kwalifiseer nie. Feite rakende Horus is daar vir almal om te bestudeer.

Nou ons kleinsinnige Neelsie brag altyd dat hy ‘n “katoliek” ( “k” met ‘n kleinletter) is, wat persone insluit wat glo dat die Christendom, die Hindu, die Boeddha, die Jood en die Moeslem, ens ‘n eendersheid van broederskap het, die dat hy sy skrywes als sodanig afsluit. (Terloops. Net soos die geval met die Egiptiese god Horus, is daar ‘n ooreenkoms tussen die lewe van Krishna = Hindugod en Christus).

In teenstelling met strontpraat Neelsie, is daar ‘n ander Christen, ‘n bekende predikant en skrywer, nl Tom Harpur, wat nie teen die feite stry nie, maar in sy Christelike geloof geïnkorporeer het, op soortgelyke wyse wat Neelsie vir almal hier op die Net preek, maar blykbaar self nie in glo nie.

In Tom Harpur se boek “The Pagan Christ”- Recovering the Lost Light, word daar oa geskryf:

"For Harpur, both literalist and modern critical attempts to locate the Jesus of history are dead ends. Transcending both positions, he believes that the real Christ is a universal archetype; a classic, pre-existent myth, known essentially by all humanity. He believes we need to re-mythologize, not de-mythologize (or historicize) that Jesus".

"From his research into ancient myth, Harpur feels he has undergone a spiritual re-awakening that has revolutionized his Christian faith. Because of its links to the great archetypal themes of primal and classic spirituality, the Bible has assumed new potency and vitality for him. Harpur believes he now possesses an awareness of the cosmic Christ he has so long sought".

Food for thought hey Neels!!

Jaco Fourie

Chris

Die Bybel maan "ondersoek alle dinge", maar wanneer dit gedoen word en waarhede strydend met die  Bybel die lig sien, dan wil Christene sodanige mense as "ketters" uitkryt en die waarheid probeer onderdruk.  'n Tipiese voorbeeld hiervan vind ons in die lewe van Leonardo da Vinci  wat vele waarhede die lig laat sien het en wat die kerk van sy tyd probeer onderdruk het, hom selfs met die dood gedreig het as ketter.  Vandag is daar geen sprake dat da Vinci nie in alle opsigte reg was nie.  Selfs onder dieselfde kerk wat hom gedreig het.

Indien 'n mens enige onderwerp met vooropgestelde idees benader, is 'n objektiewe soeke na waarheid nie moontlik nie.  Dit is ongelukkig Neelsie se probleem.  Soos jy, twyfel ek ook aan sy intellektuele vermoens om objektiwiteit van subjektiwiteit te kan onderskei

F C Boot

Die oorspronklike Griekse teks skep die duidelike indruk dat dit 'n sonsverduistering was.  Die Bybel het dit dat die duisternis drie-uur lank geduur het, en die HELE AARDE betrek.  In sodanige geval, sou dit beslis deur meeste van die betrokke volke opgeteken gewees het want in daardie dae sou dit as 'n skrikwekkende gebeurtenis ervaar word. 

Geen manuskripte van die tyd maak enige melding daarvan nie, en veral nie Josephus wat 'n tydsgenoot was ten tye van die verwoesting van Jerusalem en wat die geskiedenis van die Jode vir die Romeine opgeskryf het.

In elk geval, indien stofstorms soos reën en donderweer algemeen is, dan sou dit vir hulle nie 'n buitengewone gebeurtenis gewees het nie.

Ek kon die volgende opspoor onder Eclipses from Ancient Times 

The Crucifixion Eclipse (33 CE) According to the evangelists, Jesus was crucified on a Friday afternoon, some hours prior to the beginning of the Jewish Sabbath. It is recorded that Jesus was crucified during the period when Pontius Pilate was procurator of Judea (26-36 CE).

However, there is no consensus on the date of the crucifixion. Evidence suggests April 3, 33 CE, while others suggest it was April 7, 30 CE. There are various allusions in the Bible to the Moon being dark and turned to blood when it rose in the evening after the crucifixion, which sounds like a lunar eclipse.

 The crucifixion eclipse.
According to the evangelists, the sun darkened during the crucifixion of Christ. Later, the event was associated with an eclipse that was visible at Jerusalem.

 In Acts of the Apostles, Peter also refers to a Moon that is the colour of blood and a darkened sky. There is other evidence that on that day the Moon appeared like blood.

The so-called Report of Pilate, a New Testament Apocryphal fragment, states:

"Jesus was delivered to him by Herod, Archelaus, Philip, Annas, Caiphas, and all the people. At his crucifixion the Sun was darkened; the stars appeared and in all the world people lighted lamps from the sixth hour till evening; the Moon appeared like blood."

This may be the result of a dust storm caused by the khamsin, a hot wind from the south. Under such circumstances - a lunar eclipse while there is much suspended dust - one would expect the Moon to appear the dark crimson of blood.

The reason why the Moon is blood red is that, although it is geometrically in the Earth's shadow, sunlight is refracted through the Earth's upper atmosphere, where normal scattering will prevent blue light from penetrating. But this refracted light would be much weaker than direct light from even a small portion of the Sun and the blood colour associated with the eclipse would not be visible to the unaided eye. However, the Moon would have an amber colour from atmospheric absorption, similar to any other occasion when the Moon is low in the horizon.

Another hypothesis is that of a solar eclipse visible at Jerusalem on November 24, 29 CE. The Greek historian Phlegon mentions this eclipse in his History of the Olympiads, and says that it was accompanied by an earthquake. The Greek writer Phlegon reported that: "In the fourth year of the 202nd Olympiad, there was an eclipse of the Sun which was greater than any known before and in the sixth hour of the day it became night; so that stars appeared in the heaven; and a great Earthquake that broke out in Bithynia destroyed the greatest part of Nicaea." In fact, mention is also made in the Bible of the Sun being darkened earlier that day: "The Sun shall be turned into darkness." There is controversy among researchers whether this was a solar or a lunar eclipse, and also controversy about the date. In any case, an eclipse occurring in the very same night of the crucifixion would have been seen by believers as a supernatural sign and influenced the change of mind of the Jews and Pilate towards the body of Christ, leading to the placing of a military guard on the tomb.    

Cornelius Henn, 

F C Boot

Al jou bronne genoem, is Christelik.

Selfs jou aanhaling se oa.: “ANOTHER HYPOTHESIS is that of a solar eclipse visible at Jerusalem on November 24, 29 CE” Hypothesis = vermoede = bespiegeling = non-feitlik.

Jou sogenaamde “bewyse”:

1. In die boek Handelinge, praat Petrus van ‘n bloedige volmaan, in teenstryd met die drie Evangelie Boeke wat dit nie eers noem nie. (Bron = Nuwe Testamenties = afwyking van die drie Evangelie Boeke

2. Phlegon is gebore 80nC, en geskryf meer as 100nC, en was dus nie ooggetuie van die kruisiging nie. Amper niks van sy oorspronklike tekste bestaan vandag nie. Wat weergee word is ‘n aanhaling van sy werke deur oa. die kerkevader Jerome wat sê:

"In the 4th year of the 202nd Olympiad, there was a great eclipse of the Sun, greater than own before, for at the sixth hour the day was changed into night, and the stars were seen in the heavens. An earthquake occurred in Bythinia and overthrew a great part of the city of Nicæa."

Jou eie aanhaling hierbo noem: “there is no consensus on the date of the crucifixion. Evidence suggests April 3, 33 CE, while others suggest it was April 7, 30 CE.” Nou hoe kan ‘n mens bepaal aan watter sonsverduistering Phlegon in gedagte het, wanneer Christene self nie met sekerheid kan sê watter datum Christus gekruisig is nie?

3. Die “Verslag van Pilatus”, derde eeu nC, en deur Christene as verworpene (spurious) aanvaar weens inhoud en laat datum, en wat ooglopend in stryd is met ander Nuwe Testamentiese leer. Hieronder volg jou bron wat ek dink jy sal erken uiters belaglik is:

“And at the time he was crucified there was darkness over all the world, the sun being darkened at mid-day, and the stars appearing, but in them there appeared no lustre; and the moon, as if turned into blood, failed in her light. And the world was swallowed up by the lower regions, so that the very sanctuary of the temple, as they call it, could not be seen by the Jews in their fall; and they saw below them a chasm of the earth, with the roar of the thunders that fell upon it.

And in that terror dead men were seen that had risen, as the Jews themselves testified; and they said that it was Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the twelve patriarchs, and Moses and Job, that had died, as they say, three thousand five hundred years before. And there were very many whom I also saw appearing in the body; and they were making a lamentation about the Jews, on account of the wickedness that had come to pass through them, and the destruction of the Jews and of their law. (Hier noem dit dat Moses van die dode opgestaan het. In die Ou Testament noem dit dat Moses ten tye van die berg Horeb hemel toe gevaar het.)

And the fear of the earthquake remained from the sixth hour of the preparation until the ninth hour. And on the evening of the first day of the week (SATERDAGAAND) there was a sound out of the heaven, so that the heaven became enlightened sevenfold more than all the days. And at the third hour of the night (omtrent vanaf 21h00 Saterdagaand) also the sun was seen brighter than it had ever shone before, lighting up all the heaven. And as lightnings come suddenly in winter, so majestic men appeared in glorious robes, an innumerable multitude, whose voice was heard as that of a very great thunder, crying out: Jesus that was crucified is risen: come up out of Hades, you that have been enslaved in the underground regions of Hades. And the chasm of the earth was as if it had no bottom; but it was as if the very foundations of the earth appeared along with those that cried out in the heavens, and walked about in the body in the midst of the dead that had risen.

And he that raised up all the dead, and bound Hades, said: Say to my disciples, He goes before you into Galilee; there shall you see him. And all that night!! the light did not cease shining. And many of the Jews died, swallowed up in the chasm of the earth, so that on the following day most of those who had been against Jesus could not be found.

Others saw the appearing of those that had risen, whom no one of us had ever seen. And only one synagogue of the Jews was left in this Jerusalem, since all disappeared in that fall. With that terror, being in perplexity, and seized with a most frightful trembling, I have written what I saw at that time, and have reported to your majesty.

Having set in order also what was done by the Jews against Jesus, I have sent it, my lord, to your divinity. (Laaste sin skryf “Pilatus” van die keiser se “goddelikheid”)

Ag neewat. Ek is nou minder oortuig.

Beste Jaco Fourie,

Jy is reg as jy sê dat daar nie presies vasgestel kan word in watter jaar Jesus gebore is nie.Dit doen egter nie afbreuk aan die feit dat Jesus 'n werklik historiese persoon was nie,

As die webredakteur nie my 'Wie was Jesus' as te veel C& P beskou het nie sou baie van jou vrae reeds beantwoord gewees het.
Ek plaas dus uit "http://catholiceducation.org/articles/facts/fm0004.html  "What Year was Christ Actually Born?"as ook die Rabis se siening van Jesus uit die Talmud,Hoop dit bly staan.

While Jubilee celebrations started with the opening of the Holy Door on December 24, 1999 and ended with its closing on January 6, 2000, it is less clear whether this is really the 2000th anniversary of Christ's birth.

When Dionysius Exiguus computed the date of Christ's birth in the Middle Ages, he named the year of the Nativity 1 A.D., and stated that Jesus' birthdate was December 25 of that year. The year immediately before this was the year 1 B.C. Whether from mathematical ignorance or design, he did not include a year zero.

This complicates the calculation of the dates of the Jubilee. Christmas of the year 2 A.D. was the 1st anniversary of Christ's birth, according to Dionysius' calculations; similarly, the second anniversary of that birth fell in the year 3 A.D. Taking this forward a few centuries, we find that the 2000th anniversary of Christ's birth should fall on December 25, 2001.

To complicate matters further, it seems that Dionysius' made an error in his calculations. Herod the Great, who the Bible says was alive at the time of Christ's birth, died in the year 4 B.C., based on the reports of Josephus.

According to the Gospel of Matthew, when Herod was unable to trick the astrologers into leading him to the Child, he ordered the slaughter of all the male babies in Bethlehem. Since Herod's command (which is not attested outside the Gospels, but is consistent with his historical character) was to kill all babies under age 2, this event occurred no more than 2 years after Christ's birth.

If we assume that this happened near the end of Herod's life (which seems likely), this puts Christ's birth in the year 5 or 6 B.C. In that case, the 2000th anniversary of Christ's birth has already gone by, having been in 1993 or 1994.

 Naturally at the distance of years, it is practically impossibile to say with certainty what year Christ was actually born, though sometime between 7 B.C. and 1 B.C. seems all but certain. If this is the case, why is the Church celebrating the year 2000 with such solemnity?

The answer is simple: because the world is celebrating this date. In his Apostolic Letter “Tertio Millennio Adveniente,” the Holy Father wrote, “In view of this, the two thousand years which have passed since the Birth of Christ (prescinding from the question of its precise chronology) represent an extraordinarily great Jubilee, not only for Christians but indirectly for the whole of humanity, given the prominent role played by Christianity during these two millennia.

It is significant that the calculation of the passing years begins almost everywhere with the year of Christ's coming into the world, which is thus the centre of the calendar most widely used today. Is this not another sign of the unparalleled effect of the Birth of Jesus of Nazareth on the history of mankind?” For the Pope, the year 2000 is a sign of the centrality of Christianity in our society, hence it is cause for celebration and Jubilee.

ZE99121521ACKNOWLEDGEMENTZENIT is an International News Agency based in Rome whose mission is to provide objective and professional coverage of events, documents and issues emanating from or concerning the Catholic Church for a worldwide audience, especially the media. Copyright © 1999 ZENIT

JESUS CHRIST IN THE TALMUD
Many passages in the Talmudic books treat of the birth, life, death, and teachings of Jesus Christ. He is not always referred to by the same name, however, but is diversely called " That Man," "A Certain One," "The Carpenter's Son," "The One Who Was Hanged," etc.

Article I. -
Concerning the Names of Jesus Christ
1. The real name of Christ in Hebrew is Jeschua Hanotsri - Jesus the Nazarene. He is called Notsri from the city of Nazareth in which he was brought up. Thus in the Talmud Christians also are called Notsrim - Nazarenes. Since the word Jeschua means "Savior," the name Jesus rarely occurs in the Jewish books.

 It is almost always abbreviated to Jeschu, which is maliciously taken as if it were composed of the initial letters of the three words Immach Schemo Vezikro - "May his name and memory be blotted out."

 2. In the Talmud Christ is called Otho Isch - "That man," i.e. the one who is known to all. In the tract Abhodah Zarah, 6a, we read: "He is called a Christian who follows the false teachings of that man, who taught them to celebrate the feast on the first day of the Sabbath, that is, to worship on the first day after the Sabbath"

3. Elsewhere he is simply called Peloni - "A Certain One." In Chagigah,

4b, we read: "Mary...the mother of a certain one, of whom it is related in Schabbath..." (104b) That this Mary is none other than the mother of Jesus will be shown later.
4. Out of contempt, Jesus is also called Naggar bar naggar - "the carpenter son of a carpenter", also Ben charsch etaim - "the son of a wood worker."

 5. He is also called Talui - "The one who was hanged." Rabbi Samuel, the son of Mair, in the Hilch. Akum of Maimonides, refers to the fact that it was forbidden to take part in the Christian feats of Christmas and Easter because they were celebrated on account of him who was hanged. And Rabbi Aben Ezra, in a commentary on Genes. also calls him Talui, whose image the Emperor Constantine reproduced on his banner. "...in the days of Constantine, who made a change of religion and placed the figure of the one who was hanged on his banner."

Daar is talle ander voorbeelde, maar ek volstaan met die hierbo en vertrou dat dit jou vrae in die verband sal beantwoord. En die webredakteur se mes sal vryspring.

F C Boot

Jou bron is die Katolieke Kerk, wat onmoontlik jou beste "objektiewe" bron behoort te wees.

Ek vat maar kortpad, soos jy, spoeg en plak, die keer vanuit Wikipedia, wat jy maklik sal kan opvolg om te kontrolleer:

"The Talmud contains passages that SOME (Christian) scholars have concluded are references to Christian traditions about Jesus. The history of textual transmission of these passages is complex and scholars are not agreed concerning which passages are original, and which were added later or removed later in reaction to the actions of Christians. Scholars are also divided on the relationship of the passages, if any, to the historical Jesus, though most modern scholarship views the passages as reaction to Christian proselytism rather than having any meaningful trace of a historical Jesus. The first Christian censorship of the Talmud happened in the year 521.[1]

However, far better documented censorship began during the disputations of the Middle Ages. Advocates for the Christian church alleged that the Talmud contained insulting references to Jesus and his mother, Mary. Jewish apologists during the disputations said there were no references to Jesus in the Talmud, and claimed Joshua and its derivations was a common Jewish name, that they referred to other individuals. The disputations led to many of the references being removed (censored) from subsequent editions of the Talmud."

"Bart Ehrman and separately Mark Allan Powell state that the Talmud references are quite late (hundreds of years) and give no historically reliable information about the teachings or actions of Jesus during his life. Ehrman clarifies that the name "Son of Panthera" (Roman who allegedly was the seducer of Mary) was a tradition, as scholars have long recognized, that represented an attack on the Christian view, that he was the "son of a virgin."

In Greek, the term for virgin is Parthenon, pun of Panthera. [44][45] Also, there are contradictions in the Talmud about the times when Jesus lived. In Sotah 47a, Sanhedrin 107 it is said that Jesus lived in days of Alexander Jannaeus' reign (103 BC to 76 BC), but the Sanhedrin 43a (Jesus' execution) is an Amoraic reference about events that occurred from 200 AC to 500 AC.

Peter Schäfer states that there can be no doubt that the narrative of the execution of Jesus in the Talmud refers to Jesus of Nazareth, but states that the rabbinic literature in question are from a later Amoraic period and may have drawn on the Christian gospels, and may have been written as responses to them.[46] Scholars argue that the Talmud provides no evidence of Jesus as a historical individual, instead they view the Talmudic references as reaction to Jesus as the messiah of Christianity."

Behalwe vir Wikipedia, die internet het heelwat kommentare rakende die sogenaamde "Jesus" interpolasies van  die Talmud, maar deurgans sal jy vind dat erkende skoliere eens is dat daar geen verwysing in die Talmud is van 'n geskiedkundige Jesus Christus.

** Sit asseblief die skakel na die relevante webwerf by vir spoed-en-plak-bydraes - Webvoet

Vir diegende wat belangstel hier is 'n kort oorsig oor die Talmud ontrek uit die kommentaar van By Rev. I. B. Pranaitis 'n Rooms Katolieke priester.

THE TALMUD
The Talmud gets its name from the word Lamud - taught, and means The Teaching.
By metonymy it is taken to mean the book which contains the Teaching, which is called Talmud, that is, the doctrinal book which alone fully expounds and explains all the knowledge and teaching of the Jewish people. As to the origin of the Talmud, the Rabbis regard Moses as its first author.

They hold that, besides the written law which Moses received from God on Mount Sinai on tables of stone, which is called Torah Schebiktab, he also received interpretations of it, or the oral law, which is called Torah Shebeal Peh.

They say that this is the reason why Moses remained so long on the mountain, as God could have given him the written law in one day. Moses is said to have transmitted this oral law to Joshua; Joshua in turn to the seventy Elders; the Elders to the Prophets, and the Prophets to the Great Synagogue.

It is held that it was later transmitted successively to certain Rabbis until it was no longer possible to retain it orally. Whatever may be said about this story of the Rabbis, it is sufficiently known to us that before the birth of Christ, schools existed in Palestine in which sacred literature was taught.

The commentaries of the Doctors of the law were noted down on charts and lists as an aid to memory, and these, when collected together, formed the beginnings of the Jewish Talmud. In the second century after Christ, Rabbi Jehuda who, because of the sanctity of his life, was called The Saint, and The Prince, realizing that the learning of the Jews was diminishing, that their oral law was being lost, and that the Jewish people were being dispersed, was the first to consider ways and means of restoring and preserving their oral law.

He collected all the lists and charts and from them he made a book which was called the Sepher Mischnaioth, or Mischnah - a Deuterosis, or secondary law. He divided it into six parts, each of which was divided into many chapters. We shall consider these later. The Mischnah is the foundation and the principal part of the whole Talmud. This book was accepted by the Jews everywhere and was recognized as their authentic code of law. It was expounded in their Academies in Babylon - at Sura, Iumbaditha and Nehardea - and in their Academies in Palestine - at Tiberias, Iamnia and Lydda. As their interpretations increased with the passing of time, the disputations and decisions of the doctors of the law concerning the Mischnah were written down, and these writings constituted another part of the Talmud called the Gemarah.

These two parts are so disposed throughout the whole Talmud that the Mischnah serves first as a kind of text of the law, and is followed by the Gemarah as an analysis of its various opinions leading to definite decisions. All the precepts of the Mischnah, however, were not discussed in the Jewish schools. Those whose use was nullified by the destruction of the Temple, and those whose observation was possible only in the Holy Land were not commented upon.

 Their explanation was left until the coming of Elias and the Messiah. For this reason some parts of the Mischnah are lacking in the Gemarah. In interpreting the Mischnah of Rabbi Jehuda, the schools of Palestine and Babylon followed each their own method, and by thus following their own way gave rise to a twofold Gemarah - the Jerusalem and the Babylonian versions. The author of the Jerusalem version was Rabbi Jochanan, who was head of the synagogue in Jerusalem for eighty years. He wrote thirty-nine chapters of commentaries on the Mischnah which he compiled in the year 230 A.D.

The Babylonian Gemarah, however, was not compiled by any one person, nor at any one time. Rabbi Aschi began it in 327 A.D and labored over it for sixty years. He was followed by Rabbi Maremar about the year 427 A.D., and it was completed by Rabbi Abina about the year 500 A.D. The Babylonian Gemarah has thirty-six chapters of interpretations. This twofold Gemarah, added to the Mischnah, makes also a twofold Talmud: The Jerusalem version, which, on account of its brevity and obscurity, is not much used; and the Babylonian version, which has been held in the highest esteem by Jews of all times.

 The Gemarah is followed by additions called Tosephoth. It was thus that Rabbi Chaia first styled his opinions on the Mischnah which were made by the doctors outside the schools were called Baraietoth, or extraneous opinions. These Commentaries were further supplemented by other decisions called Piske Tosephoth, short theses and simple principles.

Neels

Jy het kort kort gesê Wouter het ons hierbo verkeerd bewys.  Nou ou, waar presies het hy dit gedoen? Kwoteer hom asseblief.  Dis wonderlik hoe jy hom aangryp soos 'n drenkeling na 'n grashalm in die water sal gryp! Gewoonlik  kraak jy alles wat hy skryf, beledigend af.  Wat hy NIE hierbo geskryf het nie, die be-aam jy nou. 

Omrede jy nie enige vermoëns tot enige kennis betrekkend die onderwerp het nie, gryp jy hom aan op sy woord alleenlik, en daardeur erken jy sy superior intellek bo joune, wat in elk geval altyd ooglopend was.

Gaan liewer terug na jou vervelige onderwerp van die Katolieke, Moeslem, Hindu, Boedha, Jood, ens. waar jy hulle  as "katoliek" broers  probeer uitbeeld.

My raad is kry iemand om jou stront eers te lees en jou te adviseur alvorens jy jou kommentare plaas, sodat die persoon jou goeie raad kan gee om dienooreenkomstig nie 'n gek van jouself te toon soos tans nie.

Neelsie

'n Brief wat  op soek is,  is geen bewyse nie tensy jy direk daaruit kan aanhaal wat kan staaf dat wat oor Horus geskryf, stront is.  Die doen jy beslis nie.  Omrede jy so sê, is ook geen bewys nie.  Inteendeel jy sou die minste  bronverwysing wees wat ek of enige regdenkende persoon sou as juis wil aanvaar.

Jy is welkom om vanuit Wouter se jongste respons te kwoteer waar jy sodanige bewyse vind, want daarin kan ek selfs niks agterkom nie.

Neelsie, 

Jy skryf:  " Niks daarvan maak Jaco Fourie se Christus /Horus vergelyking hierbo waar nie"

Behalwe vir beledigende tussenwerpels op elke kommentaar, hierbo en elders op die werf,  het jy niks konkreets tot hierdie en enige ander debat bygedra nie.

Nou mensie.  Vir 'n verandering.  Bewys jy Jesus vir ons as geskiedkundige persoon, asook sy bestaan in die hede.  Ten minste ons weet Islam se profeet Mohammed het geskiedkundig bestaan.

Neels

Eerstens.  Dit traak my geensins hoeveel of hoe min response op my skrywes is nie.

Tweedens:  Jy het nie 'n vinger geroer om enige dinkwerk van jou eie te doen nie, maar eenvoudig Wouter herhaal.

Die oorspronklike tekse wat kamptig Jesus aanhaal is vanuit die Babiloniese tekse, honderde jare na Christus, en praat heel duidelik van iemand anders as die Bybelse Jesus.  Lees die OORSPRONKLIKE  tekse in:  "The (so called) Jesus Narrative In The Talmud"   http://www.angelfire.com/mt/talmud/jesusnarr.html.  Dit was juis vir F C Boot hierbo aangegee. Die persoon waarna afgelei word deur sekere geleerdes as die Bybelse Jesus te wees, het of meer as 'n honderd jaar, en in sekere dele minder as 'n honderd jaar na of voor die Bybelse Jesus gelewe.

Nadat jy die OORSPRONKLIKE tekse gelees het, gee jou kommentaar daarop.

Nou maat.  Wys ons jy kan jou eie kop gebruik, en antwoord my vrae as gevolg van jou eie navorsing.

Neelsie

Jy skryf:  " jou onderwerp hierbo is steeds absolute drek."

Pleks om gedurig beledigende tussenwerpsels, soos hierbo, as antwoord te gooi,  bewys  jou stelling dat dit "drek" is.  Ek sal dit van jou verwelkom, want dan sal ek jou met beter respek, as tans, sal kan bejeen.

Chris, F C Boot en Wouter het dieselfde onderwerp elk vanaf 'n ander oogpunt benader, wat vir die leser beter perspektief daaroor verskaf.  Jy inteendeel het alles met  jou beledigende tussenwerpsels die onderwerp net versuur, en daardeur die indruk geskep jou kennis is gebreklik. 

Jy sê jy is 'n Christen, maar jou woorde spreek die teendeel.  Ander Christene op die web tree nie naastenby op soos jy nie.  Miskien moet jy aan die heilige Jakobus (St. James) se woorde ag slaan, nl."   

“As iemand dink hy is godsdienstig, maar hy hou  nie sy tong in toom  nie, bedrieg hy himself. SY GODSDIENS IS WAARDELOOS.” Jak. 1:26.  “Uit dieselfde mond kom  lof en vloek, my broers,  so moet dit nie wees nie.  ‘n Fontein laat tog nie uit dieselfde oog vars en brak water uitborrel nie.” Jak. 3:10-ll.