Wagner 200

  • 4

Hello, 

Vir die wat belangstel is 22 Mei 1813 'n belangrike dag met die geboorte van Richard Wagner in Leipzig en Wagner 'n persoon waaroor daar nog steeds debatteer word en is die donker skaduwee van Wagner nog steeds lank indien onlangse kritiek ter harte geneem word maar poog Nike Wagner om dit te temper soos volg: 

"Should we allow ourselves to listen to his works with pleasure, even though we know that he was an anti-Semite?"

Wagner en Hitler word dalk nou gereeld in dieselfde asem genoem en gebaseer op die volgende wat tekenend van die debat is:

Wagner's hateful essay "Judaism in Music" offered Hitler an idea of how far one could go with anti-Semitism. The composer invokes the downfall of the Jews. Characters like Mime in "Siegfried" and Kundry in "Parsifal," he argued, are evil caricatures of the supposedly inferior Jews. Köhler felt that "Parsifal" anticipated the racial theories of the Nazis, quoting propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels as saying: "Richard Wagner taught us what the Jew is."

In the 1920s, Wagner's daughter-in-law Winifred invited the young Hitler to attend the Bayreuth Festival on the Green Hill in the Bavarian city of Bayreuth. When he was in prison writing "Mein Kampf," she sent him ink, pencils and erasers. 

According to Köhler's interpretation in 1997, the Green Hill was a fortress of evil and Wagner the forefather of the Holocaust.

Daniel Barenboim aanvaar hierdie argument glad nie: 

Barenboim: Wagner can't be held directly responsible for that connection. But Wagner was a terrible anti-Semite. His 1850 essay, "Judaism in Music", is one of the worst anti-Semitic pamphlets of all time. Hitler made Wagner into a prophet. But Hitler, of course, reinterpreted even the worst things Wagner wrote about the Jews in a way for which Wagner cannot be held responsible. I understand, of course, the associations with the Nazis some people have when they hear something like "Lohengrin."

Hierdie brief is dus nie my ontleding van Wagner en die belangrikheid van Wagner en is slegs beperk tot daardie gedeeltes van Wagner se werke waarvan ek hou en sal nie uiting vind in hierdie brief nie maar het as doel bogenoemde inleidende notas en dan die seisoen van alles Wagner wat huidiglik te hore is op BBC Radio 3 en dit te deel met belangstellendes hier.

Om te begin BBC Radio 3 se 'Sunday Feature': 

Wagner: Making a National Hero
Duration: 45 minutes
First broadcast: Sunday 19 May 2013

Stephen Johnson explores the worlds of Wagner's heroes and how his Tannhauser, Lohengrin, Siegfried and Parsifal were created from a particularly Wagnerian concoction of ancient Norse legends, medieval German myths and current political thinking at the dawn of Bismark's Germany. He finds out how Wagner himself became a different sort of national hero through the efforts of Cosima, his zealously loyal widow, and then through misinterpretations of his writings about nationalism by the Third Reich.

Stephen talks to conductor Donald Runnicles, Wagner experts Barry Millington and Barbara Eichner, writer and opera director Adrian Mourby, Ring expert Edward Haymes, and Cosima's biographer Oliver Hilmes. 

Daardie program kan hier geluister word: 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01shy5m/Sunday_Feature_Wagner_Making_a_National_Hero/

Dit kan opgevolg word met die volgende program van BBC Radio 3 se 'Nightwaves': 

Wagner and antisemitism
DURATION: 19:18

It is of course 200 years this week since the birth of the composer who perhaps excites more strong opinions about his life and work than any other. Professor Paul Rose, Barry Emslie and Dr Barbara Eichner discuss Wagner and antisemitism. 
Can one see it, hear it even, in his characters and music? And if so, does it matter? Anne McElvoy asks the questions.

Daardie program kan hier geluister word: 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01shytq/Night_Waves_Wagner_200_Michael_Landy_Prague/

Bogenoemde kan saam geluister word met die volgende program ook van BBC Radio 3 wat uitgesaai was 18 Oktober 2012: 

Wagner
Duration: 45 minutes
First broadcast: Thursday 18 October 2012

In the late 1860s Wagner, already hailed as a genius, was in the process of bringing the first two parts of the Ring Cycle to the stage; Nietzsche was an upcoming classicist and philosopher, the youngest man ever to have been made Professor in a German university.

The friendship that developed between the two is documented in a vast collection of letters and writings, reflecting one of the most resonant cultural and philosophical scenes of 19th century Europe.

In a special edition Anne McElvoy maps the intellectual development which informed Wagner's work.

Daardie program kan hier geluister word: 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01nb0r2/Night_Waves_Wagner/

Hierdie is dan die inleidende program wat saam geluister moet word met die volgende reeks programme wat poog om die intellektuele onderbou en invloede van Wagner se werk. Hierdie reeks was uitgesaai in die week war verby is. 

Wagner and German Idealism

Professor Roger Scruton explores the philosophical background that influenced the young Richard Wagner. The German universities of his youth were in a state of intellectual ferment in the aftermath of the greatest philosopher of modern times, Immanuel kant. Out of this came a school of philosophy known as German Idealism. Wagner was particular influenced by the most famous of these philosophers, Hegel. And, even though Wagner was later to radically revise his philosophical views, the ideas of Hegel can still be traced in his great cycle of music dramas, The Ring: the notion that nothing human is permanent, and all must perish in the spirit's ongoing search for self-knowledge. And the essence of this spirit, Hegel argued, is freedom. Wagner took this idea one step further. Freedom, for Wagner, was not only a political phenomenon, it was also a profound spiritual reality, revealed in the moment of sacrifice. 

Daar kan hier na dit geluister word: 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/player/b01shyby

Wagner and the Philosophy of Revolution

Professor Anthony Grayling looks at the crucial years before and after the Dresden uprising of 1849 when Wagner was manning the barricades with revolutionaries such as Mikhail Bakunin. After the death of the philosopher, Hegel, in 1831, a group of his followers, the Young Hegelians argued that the forces of freedom and reason would continue to conquer everything in their way. Into this heady mix came the attacks on religious orthodoxy of Ludwig Feurbach and the political and economic theories of Proudhon. Wagner drank this all in greedily. And during his years of exile in Switzerland these ideas bubbled away and were reborn in his own philosophical essays concerning the artwork of the future aimed at remaking society along utopian socialist lines. 

Daar kan hier na dit geluister word: 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/player/b01shyvt

Wagner and Schopenhauer

Professor Christopher Janaway on Wagner's life-changing encounter with the pessimistic philosophy of Arthur Schopenhauer. In 1854 he read Schopenhauer's masterwork, The World as Will and Representation; and it hit him like a thunderbolt. Wagner discovered a thinker who endorsed his own developing views on the role of music and gave him a new way to think about his perpetual struggles with desire and erotic love. It also convinced him of the futility of political agitation. It can be argued that Wagner bent these ideas to his own purposes; and that Tristan and Isolde, written in the aftermath of this great encounter, is really a Schopenhauerian experiment gone wrong: instead of losing desire and attachment, the two lovers intensify both to the extreme. It was only in his last opera, Parsifal, that Wagner finally produced a music drama that seems in many respects at peace with the ascetic ideal of his philosophical hero, Arthur Schopenhauer.

Daar kan hier na dit geluister word: 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/player/b01shyvw

Wagner and Nietzsche

Michael Tanner looks at the relationship between two titans of German culture, the 55-year old composer Richard Wagner and the precocious 24-year old philologist, who was destined to become the great philosopher, Friedrich Nietzsche. Out of their heady late-night chats about Schopenhauer, Euripedes and Socrates came Nietzsche's first book, The Birth of Tragedy out of the Spirit of Music. The relationship was to darken and turn sour in later years when Nietzsche accused Wagner of "slobbering at the foot of the cross" in his final opera, Parsifal. But to the end Nietzsche was to regard his encounter with Wagner as one of the most important events of his life.

Daar kan hier na dit geluister word: 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/player/b01shyvy

Wagner and Adorno

Professor John Deathridge explores the posthumous reputation of Wagner in the 20th Century as seen through the lens of the philosopher Theodor Adorno who had pertinent things to say about Wagner's appropriation by the fascists, his infamous anti-semitism, and the related issues of German culture post-World War 2, the culture industry and mass culture in general.

Daar kan hier na dit geluister word: 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/player/b01shyw0

Baie dankie

Wouter

  • 4

Kommentaar

  • Johannes Comestor

    Wouter verskaf welkome inligting. Sowel Wagner as Marx is deur Hegel beïnvloed. Wagner word, soos Richard Strauss, met naziisme en antisemitisme verbind. Dit verduidelik in groot mate waarom hulle musiek sedert die Tweede Wêreldoorlog minder gehoor word as wat hulle op suiwer musikale gronde verdien. Wat eienaardig is, is dat dit nie die lot is van die talle komponiste met marxistiese, kommunistiese en selfs stalinistiese oortuigings nie. Kommunisme het baie meer skade en oor 'n langer tyd as fascisme aangerig. Dit lyk na selektiewe moraliteit om fascisme te verdoem en kommunisme met handskoene te hanteer.

     

    Johannes Comestor

  • Nietzsche en Wagner

    Die prag van musiek is die paradox daarin verbonde.  Vir die aanhoorder kan die skepper van enige musiekstuk geheel en al van sy komposisie geskei word, en ongeag die kunstenaar se lewe asook sy lewensbeskouinge,  suiwer waardering en liefde vir die musiek alleenlik kan koester.  Die gewone man op  die straat is gewoonlik geheel en al onbewus wie die skepper van sy gunsteling musiek is, die sanger daarvan sal hy wel meer oor van weet.    Dieselfde geld vir Wagner se musiek.  “Wagner is presented by Nietzsche as only a particular symptom of a broader "disease" which is affecting Europe, that is nihilism” (The Case of Wagner).  

    Protestante, selfs ateiste soos myself,  kan bv. Katolieke musiek geniet, nieteenstaande enige  weersin vir katolieke of Christelike dogma.  Stille Nag – ‘n priester se verwerking; Ave Maria wat vir die aanhoorder daarvan “goosbumps” kan gee. Ek as Afrikaner kry hoendervleis met die aanhoor van “Rule Britania”deur ‘n goeie sopraan gesing. 

     “GOD IS DOOD” (Nietzsche). " For Nietzsche, there is no sin, original or otherwise, from which to be redeemed. There is chaos, at the basis of life, but there is no redemption from that, certainly none in Christian institutions. (The case of Wagner – Ted Beckman 1998)  

    Wagner was beslis anti-semities, Nietzsche beslis nie.  

    Writing in the London Times, Macintyre says, “But Nietzsche was no Nazi. He vigorously opposed German nationalism, as he rejected all mass movements; he had no time for ideologues, mocked the notion of a Teutonic master race and loathed anti-Semitism in all its forms.

    Elisabeth (sy suster), by contrast, was an enthusiastic Fascist. An early acolyte of Richard Wagner, she and her furiously anti-Semitic husband Bernhard Förster (this newspaper described him as “the most representative Jew-baiter in all of Germany”) picked up on one of the composer’s (Wagner) barmier ideas, and set off for Paraguay in 1886 to establish an Aryan, vegetarian republic in the middle of the jungle, which they called New Germany. Nietzsche was bitterly opposed to the racist project from the start, declaring he wanted “nothing whatever to do with this anti-Semitic undertaking… if it fails, I shall rejoice”. Elisabeth was “morally bloated”, he said, “a vengeful anti-Semitic goose”. In an angry letter he told his sister that all of Germany’s racists should be packed off to the Paraguayan jungle, where they could rot harmlessly away.” 

    Nietzsche het sy Pruisiese (Duitse) burgerskap afgedank, en daarna tot sy dood as staatlose burger in Switzerland gelewe. Hy het ‘n algehele weersin in die Duitse politiek van sy tyd gehad, selfs ‘n stelling gemaak die Duitse Keiser hoort in die tronk.  

    Joachim Kohler het dit dat die ongetroude Nietzsche (oorlede op 55) gay was en dat hy met die Jood Paul Ree, ‘n seksuele verhouding gehad het. Op sy beste bly dit maar spekulasie volgens ander ook betroubare bronne.  

    Jaco Fourie

  • Hello Comestor, 

     
    Ek het jou onder andere in gedagte gehad as 'n leser wat aanklank met dit sou vind en die programme sal geniet en soos jy sekerlik opgemerk het dit sluit 'n bespreking deur Scruton ook in. 
     
    Baie dankie
     
    Wouter
  • Hello Jaco et al, 

     
    (Et al = en ander)
     
    Moet jy nie besig wees om te werk nie?    :>)
     
    Die verwysing van jou na Nietzsche se seksualiteit het in gedagte gebring 'n opstel wat ek jare terug gelees het. 
     
    In die opstel word Rüdiger Safranski  se 'Nietzsche: A Philosophical Biography' bespreek en was dit veral die volgende aanhaling van Nietzsche wat na al die jare my nog steeds bybly. 
     
    "The degree and kind of a man's sexuality reaches up into the topmost summit of his spirit." 
     
    Daardie stelling, behalwe vir dit wat elke leser hier vir homself of haarself uitpluis in verhouding tot hul eie lewens word soos volg deur Safranski in verhouding tot  Nietzsche se lewe ontleed: 

     
    How much does the life affect the work? 
     
    The ancient knot is particularly difficult to untie in the case of Nietzsche, who claimed that every philosophy is "a confession on the part of its author and a kind of involuntary unconscious memoir." The impetus that suffering gives to genius—that great, derided romantic cliché—seems to have been the personal confession and unconscious memoir in Nietzsche's own work, from the very beginning. But everyone suffers; genius remains the mystery. 
     
    How much does it matter to "The Gay Science" that Nietzsche's father's death so devastatingly preceded God's? To "The Birth of Tragedy" that Wagner and Nietzsche's father were born in the same year? Or that his childhood nightmare was filled with deafening music? 
     
    Safranski introduces another possible source of suffering, which raises questions of its own, in his forthright reference to Nietzsche's "latent homosexuality."
     
    The subject is not new. Although evidence of Nietzsche's homosexuality has been strenuously disputed by earlier biographers, many have speculated on the nature of his attachment to Salomé, since neither seemed to manifest any overt erotic interest in the other. 
     
    Rumors existed in Nietzsche's own lifetime, and the Nietzsche-obsessed circle around Freud considered Nietzsche's homosexuality common knowledge. 
     
    Freud reported having heard from Jung, whose uncle was a physician in the clinic in which Nietzsche was confined after his final collapse, that Nietzsche confessed to having been infected with syphilis while visiting a homosexual brothel, although Freud warned that neither the story nor Nietzsche's state of mind was to be trusted. 
     
    (At the time, Nietzsche was also claiming to be Christ and Dionysus and Cosima Wagner's husband.) 
     
    Freud, who believed that Nietzsche achieved greater introspective insight than anyone ever known, nevertheless concluded that he could not be analyzed because he remained a sexual mystery. 
     
    This staggering contradiction, coming from the master theorist of the sexual roots of the inner life, may at least suggest one reason for the circling evasions that have made Nietzsche so impossible to pin down; it may suggest a reason, too, for the tragic sense that only darkened as he grew older, in response to the utter loneliness that overtook his life.
     
    Perhaps, after all, he had really been in love with Rée, and loving Salomé—as at times he'd given the impression of loving Cosima Wagner—was his only means of expressing his desire. 
     
    "The degree and kind of a man's sexuality," Nietzsche wrote not long after these events, "reaches up into the topmost summit of his spirit." 
     
    When considering his own spirit, was this most introspectively insightful man deceiving or deceived? 
     
    We may never know, but whatever Salomé meant to Nietzsche as a woman, as an intellectual and spiritual companion she seems to have been his last chance to believe that he might not spend his life alone. 
     
    Hoe sal ons weet die raaisel van Nietzsche wat seksualiteit as die kern van die persoon sien en homself onvervuld was in daardie aspek. 
     
    Die geboorte van tragedie? 
     
    Baie dankie
     
    Wouter 
     
  • Reageer

    Jou e-posadres sal nie gepubliseer word nie. Kommentaar is onderhewig aan moderering.


     

    Top