'The Christian resolve to find the world evil and ugly, has made the world evil and ugly.'
– Friedrich Nietzsche
Behalwe vir hulle berugte jagse sekskapades, is die Katolieke kerk ook bekend vir haar politiese ingrype waar enige sekulêre staat met Katolieke belange bots. Die Katolieke kerk is beide ’n godsdienstige instelling sowel ’n juridiese onafhanklike staat, nl die Vatikaan, en wanneer dit haar pas, tree sy op deur middle van haar ambassadeurs in meeste wêreldlande.
Gedurende WOII toe die Nazis die onafhanklike staat van Croatia geskep het, ’n enige Katolieke staat omsingel deur Ortodokse Christene in die vorm van Serbiers, het die Ustasha (soortgelyk aan die Nazi SS), ’n vervolgingsaksie op die been gebring om Serbiese Ortodokse Christene in hul midde uit te wis.
The nature of the Ustasha NDH regime was well-known by the Vatican and by the US government as early as 1941. It was no secret that the Ustasha government sought to exterminate the entire Serbian, Jewish, and Roma populations of Croatia and Bosnia-Hercegovina. There was never any intention to deny or to hide this policy by the NDH government itself. In fact, the Ustasha documented the genocide with photographs and even film. Education Minister in the NDH regime Mile Budak openly announced that the policy was to kill a third, deport a third, and forcefully convert a third of the Serbian population of Croatia and Bosnia. Budak stated in 1941: “Thus, our new Croatia will get rid of all Serbs in our midst in order to become one hundred per cent Catholic within ten years.” A policy of mass murder and genocide was openly declared. In a speech made in Zagreb, NDH leader or Poglavnik Ante Pavelic stated: “A good Ustase is one who can use his knife to cut a child from the womb of its mother.”
Did the Vatican know of the mass murders and genocide being committed in the NDH? The three heads of the Vatican Secretariat of State, Domenico Tardini, Giovanni Battista Montini, later Pope Paul VI, and Luigi Maglione, knew of the atrocities in the NDH but did nothing to stop them, remaining passive.
“I know for a fact that it is the Franciscans themselves, as for example Father [Vjekoslav] Simic of Knin, who have taken part in attacks against the Orthodox populations so as to destroy the Orthodox Church. In the same way you destroyed the Orthodox Church in Banja Luka. I know for sure that the Franciscans in Bosnia and Herzegovina have acted abominably, and this pains me. Such acts should not be committed by educated, cultured, civilized people, let alone by priests.” In a meeting of May 27, 1942, Tisserant informed Rusinovic that based on German figures, “350,000 Serbs had disappeared” in the NDH and that “in one single concentration camp there are 20,000 Serbs.” The full extent and nature of the genocide committed in the NDH was fully known by the Vatican by early 1942. The role and complicity of the Roman Catholic Church in Croatia and Bosnia in the genocide was also fully known. And yet Eugenio Pacelli, Pope Pius XII, did absolutely nothing.
The Vatican Role in the Ustasha Genocide in the Independent State of Croatia - Carl Savich – Serbiana 11 Nov 2011
The most notorious example is that of expelled Franciscan Miroslav Filipovi?, known as "the devil of Jasenovac" for running the Jasenovac concentration camp, where estimates of the number killed range between 49,600 and 600,000.[6][11][13] Ivan Šari? is believed to have been the "worst" of the Catholic bishops who supported the Ustaša; his diocesan newspaper wrote: "there is a limit to love. The movement of liberation of the world from the Jews is a movement for the renewal of human dignity. Omniscient and omnipotent God stands behind this movement".[7] Bishop Šari? also appropriated Jewish property for his own use.[7]
Wikipedia
Onlangs was priesters en nonne betrokke in die massa-moorde van Tutsi’s in Rwanda
Father Athanase Seromba was sentenced to 15 years imprisonment by the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda for his role in the massacre of 2000 Tutsis. The court heard that Seromba lured the Tutsis to the church, where they believed they would find refuge. When they arrived, he ordered bulldozers to crush the refugees within and Hutu militias to kill any survivors.[ ner."
Wikipedia
Authorities in Rwanda have arrested a Belgian Catholic priest on charges related to the genocidal massacres of 1994.
Father Guy Theunis, who had worked as a missionary in Rwanda from 1970 until 1994, was arrested at the airport in the country's capital, Kigali. He was reportedly in transit to the Democratic Republic of Congo when he was taken into custody.
Rwandan prosecutor Emmanuel Rukangira said that the Belgian priest had provoked Rwandans toward genocide by republishing articles from an extremist publication in his Dialogue magazine. The editor of those articles, Hassan Ngeze, has already been sentenced to life imprisonment by the UN tribunal investigating the Rwandan atrocities.
Many Catholic priests and religious have been charged with participation in the slaughter of 1994, in which 800,000 members of the minority Tutsi ethnic group were killed along with more moderate members of the majority Hutu tribe. Rwanda, a former Belgian colony, is heavily Catholic, and Tutsis flocked to Church properties in an effort-- often unsuccessful-- to escape the massacres.
Catholic World News – 08 Sept 2005 (’n Leker koerant - deur Katolieke vir Katolieke)
Daar word bereken dat omtrent $42mil dollar in goud, wat deur Ustasha van die Jode in Croatia afgeneem is, hul pad in die koffers van die Vatikaan bevind het.
In opvolg, wil ek uitbrei hoe die rykste organisasie ter wêreld geld en eiendom opberg, priesters wat steel en ryk word, terwyl miljoene om hulle krepeer.
Jaco Fourie
Kommentaar
Ek is nie seker wat jy hiermee wil bereik nie. Dwarsdeur die geskiedenis van die mens is misbruik gemaak van nie net van godsdiens maar ook politieke teorieë soos bv kommunisme. So was Pol Pot verantwoordelik vir die dood van 2000 000 mense in sy ywer om 'n nuwe bestel 'n plattelandse gemeenskap daar te vestig. Met erkenning aan 'Historyplace":
Once in power, Pol Pot began a radical experiment to create an agrarian utopia inspired in part by Mao Zedong's Cultural Revolution which he had witnessed first-hand during a visit to Communist China. Mao's "Great Leap Forward" economic program included forced evacuations of Chinese cities and the purging of "class enemies."
Pol Pot would now attempt his own "Super Great Leap Forward" in Cambodia, which he renamed the Democratic Republic of Kampuchea. He began by declaring, "This is Year Zero," and that society was about to be "purified." Capitalism, Western culture, city life, religion, and all foreign influences were to be extinguished in favor of an extreme form of peasant Communism. All foreigners were thus expelled, embassies closed, and any foreign economic or medical assistance was refused.
The use of foreign languages was banned. Newspapers and television stations were shut down, radios and bicycles confiscated, and mail and telephone usage curtailed. Money was forbidden. All businesses were shuttered, religion banned, education halted, health care eliminated, and parental authority revoked. Thus Cambodia was sealed off from the outside world. All of Cambodia's cities were then forcibly evacuated. At Phnom Penh, two million inhabitants were evacuated on foot into the countryside at gunpoint. As many as 20,000 died along the way.."
Millions of Cambodians accustomed to city life were now forced into slave labor in Pol Pot's "killing fields" where they soon began dying from overwork, malnutrition and disease, on a diet of one tin of rice (180 grams) per person every two days. Workdays in the fields began around 4 a.m. and lasted until 10 p.m., with only two rest periods allowed during the 18 hour day, all under the armed supervision of young Khmer Rouge soldiers eager to kill anyone for the slightest infraction. Starving people were forbidden to eat the fruits and rice they were harvesting.
After the rice crop was harvested, Khmer Rouge trucks would arrive and confiscate the entire crop. Ten to fifteen families lived together with a chairman at the head of each group. All work decisions were made by the armed supervisors with no participation from the workers who were told, "Whether you live or die is not of great significance." Every tenth day was a day of rest.
There were also three days off during the Khmer New Year festival. Throughout Cambodia, deadly purges were conducted to eliminate remnants of the "old society" - the educated, the wealthy, Buddhist monks, police, doctors, lawyers, teachers, and former government officials. Ex-soldiers were killed along with their wives and children. Anyone suspected of disloyalty to Pol Pot, including eventually many Khmer Rouge leaders, was shot or bludgeoned with an ax. "What is rotten must be removed," a Khmer Rouge slogan proclaimed. In the villages, unsupervised gatherings of more than two persons were forbidden. Young people were taken from their parents and placed in communals. They were later married in collective ceremonies involving hundreds of often-unwilling couples."
Die Amerikaanse bombardement wat die verskriklike gebeure vooraf gegaan het,het toe net die teenoorgestelde uitwerking gehad. "From 1969 until 1973, the U.S. intermittently bombed North Vietnamese sanctuaries in eastern Cambodia, killing up to 150,000 Cambodian peasants. As a result, peasants fled the countryside by the hundreds of thousands and settled in Cambodia's capital city, Phnom Penh. All of these events resulted in economic and military destabilization in Cambodia and a surge of popular support for Pol Pot. By 1975, the U.S. had withdrawn its troops from Vietnam. Cambodia's government, plagued by corruption and incompetence, also lost its American military support. Taking advantage of the opportunity, Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge army, consisting of teenage peasant guerrillas, marched into Phnom Penh and on April 17 effectively seized control of Cambodia.
Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50) was na bewering verantwoordelik vir die dood van tussen 49 en 78 miljoen mense, wat as dit waar is Stalin en Hitler en ek sê dit met respek , net om 'n vergelyking te tref, na beginners laat lyk.
Die verskil. Politieke afgryse is gewoonweg gedateer en kom ten einde. Nazi afgryse; Pol Pot afgryse; Tamerlane afgryse; Prins Vlad afgryse; Gengis Khan; Attila die Hun; afgryse; ens het gekom en gegaan.
Die Katolieke Kerk se afgryse strek ononderbroke oor meer as 'n duisend jaar in verskillende vorms, waarby ander godsdienste nie naastenby sodanige reputasie het nie.
Jaco Fourie
Beste FC Boot,
Die kruks van die saak soos Jaco Fourie onder enige hoofde met "Katoliek" daarin, dit self en ruiterlik elders reeds erken het:
"Cornelius gee kort-kort onnodige en ongesubstansieerde steke na Afrikaanse Calvinisme. Nouja. Al is ek [Jaco Fourie] ‘n ateis, het ek ‘n kulturele (nie godsdienstige) aanvoeling met Afrikaanse Calvinisme, weens my voorgeslagtlike agtergrond waarop ek besonders trots is. In Israel is daar meer ateiste onder die Jode als die ortodokse Jode, wat nieteenstaande, ‘n kulturele verbintenis met die res van Jodendom heet. Ek wou Cornelius uitwys dat die kamma “sondes” van Afrikaanse Calvinisme geen sondes is in vergelyking met die van sy Katolieke Kerk wat hy so ophemel."
Siestog ja ... hierdie hele patologiese obsessie waarin Jaco Fourie en Wouter Ferns hulself toewy, is regtig net om my persoonlik te probeer bykom.
Maar, dis nie al nie; hulle probeer ook om daarmee hul eie promiskue en dekadente seksbeheptheid, beter te laat lyk.
Want so lief het God die HELE wêreld - ten spyte van al die gru en sonde daarin - gehad, dat Hy sy eniggebore Seun gegee het, sodat elkeen wat in Hom glo, nie verlore mag gaan nie, maar die ewige lewe kan hê.
Godsdiens is dus nie verhewe bokant enigiets nie. Dis inderdaad opregte diens deur menige opregte hart daarin, en in hul nederige afhanklikheid van onse Skepper se liefde en genade.
Dis voor die handliggend hoe Statan en sy agente Godsdiens van binne, en van buite probeer besmet!
Katolieke groete,
Cornelius Henn
Hello Jaco,
Beste Jaco,
Dankie vir 'n interessante artikel, en vir die paslike aanhaling deur Friedrich Nietzsche. Vir my is dit verstaanbaar dat mense sonder geloof in 'n opperwese wat alles sien, en "boekhou" van die dade van die mensdom verantwoordelik kan wees vir massamoord. In teendeel, is dit nie moontlik vir my om te verstaan hoe mense wat aanhorig is aan 'n Kerk , en in 'n God glo, die Katoelike Kerk in hierdie instansie, veratwoordelik kan wees vir die brutaliteite wat jy beskryf. En watter rol speel die konsep van "die laaste oordeel" in die lewensbeskouing van hierdie laaste groep?
Die gedagte dat 'n mens die lewe van 'n ander kan neem, en veral, ter ere van 'n god , vervul my met afsku.
Die Amerikaners is kamtig die mees kerkvaste nasie in die Weste, maar het dit hulle verhoed om 'n atoombom te ontplof oor Hiroshima en Nagasaki? Die grootse massamoord in die geskiedenis van die mensdom.
Die antwoord op hierdie vrae is kompleks. Basies kom dit daarop neer dat in die mens is daar twee aparte kompartemente wat geen kommunikasie met mekaar het nie, ook geen terugvoer het nie: 'n Kompartement vir godsdiens met die gepaartgaande morele waardes en standaarde waarvolgens die "goeie mens" behoort te leef, en 'n kompartement waar selfsug, eiegewin en haat vir medemens heers. Hierdie twee praat nie met mekaar nie, en daarom tree mense, en ook die Kerk op, om hulle eie voordele en doelwitte te bereik, selfs in die geval van moord.
Beste groete,
Pieter Redelinghuys
Wouter
My vertoë is ooglopend gerig teen die magsbesluite (beide godsdienstig en sekulêr) van die kerk, wat deur pous, kardinale, artsbiskoppe en priesters oor die meer as 1000 jaar uitgevoer word, en nie teen die leke nie.
Die Katolieke kerk is hoogs hiërargies ingedeel, nl pous; kardinale; artsbiskoppep; priesters. Hulle leke word als gepeupel en onderdane aan genoemde ampsdraers deur die kerk beskou; EN 'n goeie bron van inkomste vir die kerk. Deur evangeliewerk in enige besonderse land, word groot getalle leke vir die kerk gewerf. Deur middel van hierdie groot getalle, skep dit vir hulle in menigde lande ook sekulere mag (veral soos dit die geval was in Croatia 1941, en onlangs in Rwanda.)
Hulle houvas op hulle leke is psigiese vrees deur die leke vir die hel, wat selfs 'n pedofiel priester (weens sy amp) die mag het in terme van hulle dogma, om na gestuur te kan word vir enige ongehoorsaamheid aan enige kerk leer.
In teenstelling het Protestante kerke se leke die finale seggenskap in besluitnemings rakende die kerk, selfs die aan of afstelling van hulle predikante. Die dat Protestante in 'n magdom sektes ingedeel is.
Diktatorskap (Katolieke kerk) versus demokrasie (Protestatante Kerke)
Ongetwyfel doen die Katolieke kerk benydingswaardige sosiale en mediese werke, en het ongetwyfeld toegewyde personeel wat uitvoering daarin gee. Dieselfde kan ook gesê word van Kuba onder die diktator Fidel Castro, waar hulle mediese dienste aan hulle bevolking van die beste, indien nie DIE beste in die wêreld is nie, ook met toegewyde mediese personeel, nieteenstaande die afgryse deur Fidel teenoor van sy eie bevolking gepleeg nie. In Nazi Duitsland was daar ook toegewyde persone wat goeie werke vir hul EIE mense gedoen het.
As gevolg van goeie werke, moet 'n mens dan die kerk en sekulêre staat ontsien vir die afgryse wat histories teenoor hulle opgeteken staan?
Jaco Fourie
Pieter
Dankie vir jou gewaardeerde aanvulling tot die onderwerp.
Wat my veral tref is waar jy skryf: "Die gedagte dat 'n mens die lewe van 'n ander kan neem, en veral, ter ere van 'n god , vervul my met afsku."
Dit bring my terug na waar 'n Biskop van Rome gesê het dat god ondersteun sodanige afgryse, nl: " Ivan Šari? is believed to have been the "worst" of the Catholic bishops who supported the Ustaša; his diocesan newspaper wrote: "there is a limit to love. The movement of liberation of the world from the Jews is a movement for the renewal of human dignity. Omniscient and omnipotent God stands behind this movement"
Met elke verminke ledemaat, of ter dood veroordeling, hetsy deur middel van steniging, verwurging, onthoofding, ens in die naam van Islamietiese Sharia wetgewing, word geskreeu: "Allah Akbar" nl "God is
genadig" Die internet is vol videos wat sodanige afgryse dokumenteer.
Jaco Fourie
Af shaim Neelsie, my troetel-dingetjie!
Het jy dan nie agtergekom ek het nie eers na jou verwys of genoem nie?
Jy het my seker gemis, die jou oorsensitiewe reaksie.
Jaco Fourie
Wouter Ferns tik: Cornelius Henn, vir wat Henn ook al mag wees is nie 'n Roomse Katolieke volgeling nie. Cornelius Henn se hutspot is 'n maaksel wat net in Cornelius Henn se brein en die boek waarvan 'n foto geplaas is bestaan en daarvolgens die werklikheid beskryf.
Die bydrae waarna Wouter Ferns in sy waan verwys, is die Gereformeerde Kerk se Psalm en Skrifberyming boek.
My bydrae met die foto kan hier gelees word: https://www.litnet.co.za/Article/oor-n-enige-katolieke-kerk
Hoe onkundig oor die onderwerp, tog hoe ongelooflik verwaand daaroor, is die patetieke bleeksiel Wouter Ferns!
Nie te danke nie,
Cornelius Henn
Toemaar Jaco, al die kruipers glo elke woord wat jy tik ... ek bly egter oortuig van die meeste belangstellendes hier se intelligensie ... dis tog immers jou eie woorde elders wat ek hier bo aanhaal, en dit impliseer helaas elke bydrae deur jou gelewer rakende hierdie onderwerp!
Beste Jaco
Jy begin jou skrywe met die volgende aanhaling:
The Christian resolve to find the world evil and ugly, has made the world evil and ugly.' – Friedrich Nietzsche
In die aanhaling word geen onderskeid getref tussen die verskillende Christelike kerke nie.Tog het jy dit goed gedink om die die Rooms Katolieke kerk en dan in besonder die Vatikaan uit te sonder as die wat dan as het ware Nietzshe se stelling sou staaf en dan in besonder omdat hul dan meer as 'n 'duisend jaar' met die 'booshede' doenig is.
Jy sê dan in jou verweer dat al die ander voorbeelde wat ek genoem het tot 'n einde kom of gekom het. Dit mag waar wees maar dan vergeet jy om te noem dat dit maar weer onder 'n ander naam sy herverskyning maak.
So bv word beraam dat meer as $32 biljoen verdien word wêreldwyd uit mensehandel en dat selfs op ons eie kontinent mense op soek na 'n beter lewe uitgelewer is aan sindikate wat in organe handel gedryf het
of eenvoudig verkoop word as slawe of aan die sekshandelaars uitgelewer word.
So word daar ook beraam dat daar in Asië en die 'Pacific) 127.3 miljoen kinders vasgevang is in kinderarbeid en onder die mees haglike omstandighede werk. (https://sites.google.com/site/childlabor2/labor-in-china) Hierdie kinders se produkte word dan in massa wêreldwyd versprei.
Dit is ook 'n tradisie wat ook nie vandag ontstaan het nie en nog steeds voortduur. Hierdie kinders word ook aan talle seksuele misbruike onderwerp.
In Noord-Korea vier kommunisme nog hoogty met ramspoedige gevolge:
"Food Insecurity in North Korea North Korea’s agricultural production is vulnerable to shocks and fails to provide adequate food for the population. This is due to a number of factors, including a largely mountainous terrain which restricts the amount of arable land, frequent floods, droughts and insect damage, low agricultural diversity, inefficient agricultural practices, lack of mechanisation and fuel supply and limited access to external agricultural resources and funding. As a result, the government is reliant on food imports to meet the remaining need. It is estimated that one third of all children under five are chronically malnourished or stunted. Diets lack variety, and most people lack adequate protein and vitamins in the food which is available to them. In the provinces with the poorest food supply, the rates of stunting have been assessed to be as high as 45 per cent, with 7.9 per cent of children suffering from severe acute malnutrition.
http://www.miseast.org/en/nkorea/food-insecurity-north-korea
Ek volstaan hiermee omdat dit duidelik is dat die mens se kapasiteit om tot op laagste vlak te daal
nie net beperk is tot kerklike instansies nie en dat ek die uitsondering van die Katolieke kerk in die opsig
bevraagteken.
Hello Jaco,
Beste F.C. Boot
Jy is heeltemal reg. Afgryse van watter aard en in watter vorm ookal moet kwaai aangespreek word, en nie kerklik alleenlik nie veral waar vrouens en kinders as slagoffers daarin betrokke is, maar nie alles noodwendig op een slag in dieselfde asem nie. Om die beste deurslag te kry, word beperk tot 'n sekere sektor van die mensdom. Waar ek bevoorbeeld oor Katolieke afgryse sal praat, kan jy, as blykbaar beter kundige, oor die onderwerp rakende moderne sex slawerny, orgaanhandel-misdrywe en grootskaalse menseroof praat.
Als voorbeeld. Die hele mensdom, vanaf die oertyd af, se geskiedenis is daar vir 'n geskiedkundige navorser om oor te skryf, maar hy beperk hom tot 'n gegewe tydperk in geskiedenis, gewoonlik met 'n spesifieke land oor genoemde tydperk onder die vergrootglas. Dit beteken nie dat hy ongevoelig of oningelig is oor al die ander geskiedenis en lande wat hy nie aangeraak het nie.
Vir my in die besonder, is Katolieke afgryse soveel meer walglik als sekulêre afgryse (sonder om sekulêre afgryse enigsins te minimiseer), weens die feit dat die Katolieke kerk-dogma beweer hulle tree op as god se gesant en met god se gedelegeerde mag in beide die sekulêre asook die geestelike sfeer van menswees. Dit bly die kerk se siening wat nie gewysig is sedert haar ontstaan nie, 'n uiters gevaarlike siening veral wanneer hulle genoegsame ondersteuning in enige katolieke land verkry om of direk of deur proxy (Katoliek ondersteunde regering) mag uit te oefen op 'n onwillige andersdenkende minderheid. Die Fillipyne is 'n onlangse voorbeeld hiervan (sedert die onverwerping van die katoliek ondersteunde regering, nie meer nie).
Waar sekulêre afgryse kom, gaan en verwissel oor verskillende wêrelddele, en sal seersekerlik in die toekoms ook gereeld geskied, is die Katolieke kerk 'n vaste wêreldwye instelling wat nog daar in die toekoms gaan wees, en weens die aard van haar dogma, haar getalrykheid, finansiële rykdom, en veral haar bestuurstruktuur (diktoriaal) is afgryse vir die toekoms van haar nie onmoontlik nie, hetsy direk of deur proxy (soos dit die geval in Croatia was, en onthou dit was maar net 'n skamele 70 jaar gelede).
Op die oogaf is die een Katolieke land op die ander besig om die mag van die pous in hulle lande af te skaf. Dit sluit in die toelating van voorbehoedmiddels, aborsie, homoseksualiteit, ens. om maar net 'n paar te noem waaroor selfs vandag se pous teen gekant is. Weens menslike wisselvalligheid, wat vir hierdie geslag aanvaarbaar is, is nie te sê die volgende geslag gaan dieselfde daaroor voel nie. Geskiedenis en politiek het 'n neiging om 'n pendulum swaai van liberale tot konserwetiewe denke, heen en weer, van 'n meerderheid te dokumenteer. 'n Swaai terug na ou geestelike waardes in kerklike afvallig Wes-Europa is nie onmoontlik nie, veral in moeilike finansiële tye. Vorige Kommunistiese Rusland is 'n tiepiese voorbeeld hiervan wat op ou kerklike waardes nou teruggeval het, met die vooruitsig van onverdraagsaamheid en politieke afgryse in die nabye toekoms, die keer onder die vaandel van die Ortodokse kerk wat vinnig besig om daar sekulere mag deur proxy te bekom.
'n Ander godsdiens-groep ('n bespreking vir 'n ander tyd) in moderne tye pleeg gereeld afgryse teen die mensdom onder hulle gesag, nl Islam. 'n Gevaarlike godsdiens soos min in lande soos Saudi-Arabië, die Emirate, Irak, Iran, Noord Nigeria en Sudan, indien jy nie 'n Moeslem is nie.
Terloops. Is jy miskien Katoliek of Katoliek gesind, dat jy beswaar toon oor my keuse van onderwerp?
Nietemin. Jou onthullings hierbo rakende mense en orgaanhandel is definitief 'n interessante onderwerp, en indien jy jou weg oopsien om verder hier op die werf uit te brei, sal dit deur myself in die besonder, gewaardeer word.
Jaco Fourie
Beste Jaco
Dit is die beste om die verteenwoordigers van die Rooms Katolieke Kerk self aan die woord te stel. Dit sal dan ook misverstande uit die weg ruim. Jy sal sien dat die Pous geag word om die opvolger van Petrus te wees en dan ook deur die opvolgingsproses geag word Christus se verteenwoordiger hier op aarde te wees. Die 'onfeilbaarheid' in skriftelike uitleg en die nagmaal word ook verduidelik:
"'The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful--who confirms his brethren in the faith--he proclaims by a definitive act a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals. . . . The infallibility promised to the Church is also present in the body of bishops when, together with Peter's successor, they exercise the supreme Magisterium,' above all in an Ecumenical Council" (891)."
Die heel beste vergelyking met 'n ander bestel is die Staatspresident en sy kabinet. Alhoewel die Staatspresident en sy ministers aanspreeklik is oor dit wat in die regering aangegaan, dws hulle moet 'please explain' want dit is waarvoor hul aangestel is, is hul nie verantwoordelikvir die wanpraktyke, soos bv korrupsie wat hul Departemente aangaan, tensy hulself aktiewe deelnemers is.
So kan die Pous en vergadering van biskoppe ook nie verantwoordelik gehou word vir dade wat gepleegword deur ander onder die dekmantel van die Katolieke kerk as instelling, tensy hulself aktiewe deelnemers was.
'n Mens verwag dus dat in beide instansies daar opgetree sal word teen oortreders. Dit is ongelukkig so dat in beide instansies oortreders dikwels net 'herontplooi' word, om elders hul wanpraktyke te hervat. Net soos ons nie van die hele regeringsbestel ontslae raak nie sal dit ook onbillik wees om te verwag dat die Rooms Katolieke kerk dit doen. Hier volg die uiteensetting, soos verkry van die Roman Catholic Church online.
"Jesus not only gave the apostles a mission, he established the Church and appointed Peter as his visible representative on earth Given the extraordinary events unfolding before us, it only seems natural for us to reflect on why we need the Catholic Church and the Pope.
The main reason that comes to my mind at this time is the teaching mission of the Church. Cardinals in Rome as they prepare to vote for the 266th Pope of the Catholic Church KNOXVILLE, TN (Catholic Online) - The Catholic Church is presently without a pope, but not for long. Cardinals from around the world have gathered in Rome for the sole purpose of electing a new pope.
The conclave of cardinals begins on Tuesday, March 12. Given the extraordinary events unfolding before us, it only seems natural for us to reflect on why we need the Church and the Pope. Obviously, there is more than one reason, but the main one that comes to my mind at this time has to do with a practical matter: the teaching mission of the Church. Jesus said, "Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age" (Mt 28:19-20).
Okay, so exactly how is that done in the real world? Well, I know this much. According to various estimates, there are over 30,000 different Christian denominations in the world today. And there are hundreds of different interpretations regarding significant matters of faith, if not more. This is not how it is done. We read in the Bible that dissension was a problem for the Christian community right from the start. There are many examples.
I have listed a few as follows: "I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who create dissensions and obstacles, in opposition to the teaching that you learned; avoid them" (Rom 16:17). "There were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will introduce destructive heresies and even deny the Master who ransomed them, bringing swift destruction on themselves" (2 Pt 2:1). "Many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh; such is the deceitful one and the antichrist" (2 Jn 1:7).
Such dissension over the centuries has created much confusion for Christians and non-Christians alike. What are people to think when Christians can't agree on the most basic elements of the faith? For instance, is Christ truly present in the Eucharist or not? The Catholic Church teaches that Jesus is truly present whole and entire--Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity--in the Eucharist, that the bread and wine are changed through a process called transubstantiation, and that this change can only be effected by a man who has been ordained as a priest by a bishop in the line of apostolic succession.
On the other hand, some Protestant denominations believe in a form of the real presence while others do not. Among those situated in the real-presence camp, some believe in their version of transubstantiation, while others believe in consubstantiation or in a "pneumatic" presence. Then there are those denominations that believe in a spiritual presence only, and those denominations that view the Eucharist as mere symbolism.
The Catholic Church also teaches that the Eucharist is a sacrifice, not just a commemorative meal as some Protestants believe. For Catholics, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is an unbloody representation of Christ's actual sacrifice on the cross. In his Apostolic Letter, Dies Domini, Blessed John Paul II said that Jesus unites His sacrifice with ours at each Mass and presents it to the Father, thereby continuing to redeem the world and transform it, through the one sacrifice which is not limited by time.
The Catholic theologian Scott Hahn has said that history and the Mass are linked. History is controlled from Christ's sacrifice at the altar in heaven. History is also determined by what takes place on our altars and in our hearts. Through our liturgical worship, we, in a sense, release God's action and judgment on the world. It is the key to history and the realization of the Kingdom in heaven and on earth.
Saint Pio said, "It would be easier for the world to survive without the sun than to do without Holy Mass." Saint Leonard of Port Maurice said, "I believe that were it not for the Holy Mass, as of this moment the world would be in the abyss." These are important matters. If the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is what the Catholic Church says it is, then our participation in the Mass is the most important thing we could ever do for ourselves and for the world. If the Eucharist is truly the Lord Jesus made present, and we ignore this fact or receive the Eucharist unworthily, the offense would be unimaginably grievous. In order to do the right thing, we need to know who is correct.
How do we do that? We first need to ask ourselves, how do we reasonably fulfill Christ's teaching command in the real world? Clearly, we need an authoritative body, a recognizable institution like the Catholic Church. And that institution needs a leader, the Pope. This is exactly what Jesus established when he said, "And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven" (Mat 16:18-19).
Jesus not only gave the apostles a mission, he established the Church and appointed Peter as his visible representative on earth. We know this because in Jewish culture "the keys" represent an actual office endowed with authority and power. In Isaiah, we read that the palace official Shebna was thrown out of his office, and it was given to Eliakim. King Hezekiah said to Shebna, "I will place the key of the House of David on his shoulder; when he opens, no one shall shut, when he shuts, no one shall open" (Is 22:22). But even this is not enough. How do we know if the Church's teachings correctly reflect Christ's commands after two thousand years? This does not seem possible for any person or institution.
But for God all things are possible. The Church belongs to God. It is His Body, and Christ is its head (Col 1:18). And in his first letter to Timothy, Saint Paul called the Church "the pillar and foundation of truth" (3:15). What's more, Jesus told the apostles, "The Advocate, the Holy Spirit that the Father will send in my name-he will teach you everything and remind you of all that [I] told you" (Jn 14:26). "I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now. But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth. . ." (Jn 16:12-13). The reason we can trust the teaching of the Church is because we can trust God. We trust what God said. This is where Catholics get the idea of infallibile teaching. No doubt, you have heard reference to the Pope being infallible. Paragraph 891 in the Catechism of the Catholic Church explains what the Church actually means by infallibility.
It is as follows: "'The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful--who confirms his brethren in the faith--he proclaims by a definitive act a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals. . . . The infallibility promised to the Church is also present in the body of bishops when, together with Peter's successor, they exercise the supreme Magisterium,' above all in an Ecumenical Council" (891).
We can see how valuable the charism of infallibility has been when we read some of the writings of the Early Church Fathers from the first and second centuries. For instance, Saints Clement I, Ignatius of Antioch, Justin Martyr, and Irenaeus wrote about the Eucharist and the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Another early source is a book by an unknown author called the Didache. It was written around 70 A.D., and it describes the Mass in detail.
Of course, these writings cover many other topics as well. But the point is that when we read them, we will recognize the Catholic Church, and we will know that the Church's teachings have not significantly changed in matters of faith and morals for two thousand years. Thus, we can be confident that the Church has faithfully carried out its mission, and its teachings correctly reflect Christ's commands. This kind of talk may make some of our brothers and sisters in the Eastern Orthodox churches and the Protestant churches feel uncomfortable, both for differing reasons.
However, it need not. As Catholics, we recognize the goodness and beauty of all Christians around the world. For instance, many Christians living in Muslim countries are shedding their blood for the universal Church. They are modern-day martyrs making atonement for our sins and paving the way for a glorious new springtime. Jesus prayed for unity within his family: "I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me" (Jn 17:20-21).
Thousands of different Christian denominations is not unity; it is a disgrace, and it has hindered the teaching mission of the Church. We are a family, but a broken family. Christians living today did not cause the rupture that exists within the Christian family, but we are being called to mend it and facilitate its healing. I believe this because Christianity is increasingly being threatened throughout the world, "and if a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand" (Mk 3:25). I ask all the angels and saints to pray for our cardinals and our future pope. And as the conclave begins, I invite all Christians, and all people of good will, to unite with the Catholic Church in friendship and share in our hope and joy. Today friendship, tomorrow, who knows "
. . . . ----- Michael Terheyden was born into a Catholic family, but that is not why he is a Catholic. He is a Catholic because he believes that truth is real, that it is beautiful and good, and that the fullness of truth is in the Catholic Church. However, he knows that God's grace operating throughout his life is the main reason he is a Catholic. He is greatly blessed to share his faith and his life with his beautiful wife, Dorothy. They have four grown children and three grandchildren. "
Word weer versend. Nie seker of die vorige een deur is nie
Wouter
Net ‘n voorbeeld van die Katolieke se verwagting wat gespandeer moet word vir ‘n besoek deur die pous, asook wat die kerk van ‘n staat of die publiek van verwag.
Vatican 'asks Brazil for extra £26 million for Pope Francis visit' The Vatican has asked Brazil for an additional £26 million to help cover an expected shortfall in funding for the visit of the Pope to Rio de Janeiro later this month, according to reports. Pope Francis will make his first international trip to the world's largest Catholic country for the World Youth Day celebrations to be held between July 23 and 28. A shortage in the expected millions of pilgrims – whose contributions are part-funding the cost – led to the Vatican identifying a black hole of up to £44 million, according to Brazilian media.
But Brazil's federal, state and city officials in Rio de Janeiro, who have already committed at least £40 million of public money to the £100 million event, are said to have refused to contribute any more. It is understood that recent mass protests across Brazil – in which more than a million people demonstrated against the lack of investment in public services compared with the Pope's visit, the 2014 World Cup and 2016 Olympics – may have played a part in the decision.
The Telelgraph -21 Jul 13
Paolo Cipriani, the director, and his deputy, Massimo Tulli, stepped down "after many years of service, in the best interest of the institute and the Holy See," the Vatican said in a statement. They appeared to be the first scalps in a determined campaign by the Jesuit Pope to clean up the Vatican's murky finances and to push through sweeping reforms at the bank, which has been mired in allegations of money laundering and other shady practices for years.
Francis last week appointed a special commission to oversee the bank, which is officially known as the Institute for Works of Religion, and has its headquarters in the Torrione di Niccolo V, an imposing circular stone tower within the walls of the city state. The fact that the Argentinian pope set up the commission and ordered it to report directly to him suggested that "he was not confident that he was getting the full picture about the bank from those who ran it," a Vatican insider said. "Francis could have asked the management of the bank for the information he wanted but Cipriani apparently did not have the confidence of his new boss."
The Telegraph 21 Jul 13
Jaco Fourie
Beste Jaco
'n Artikel oor onwettige orgaanhandel hieronder. Die prentjie sal nie vertoon nie.
Google die webwerf vir dit. http://www.africareview.com/Special-Reports/Organ-trafficking-on-the-rise-in-post-Mubarak-Egypt/-/979182/1303076/-/9asidkz/-/index.html
Organ trafficking on the rise in post Mubarak Egypt
By DALLIA MONIEM in Cairo | Tuesday, January 10 2012 at 15:36
A tattoo covering a scar on the body of a victim of an illegal kidney harvesting by a gang in Cairo, Egypt. FILE | AFRICA
REVIEW |
"The political unrest that rocked Egypt last year seems to have shaken the country's law enforcement apparatus, creating loopholes for organ traffickers. During that period, cases of organ trafficking of Sudanese refugees and other political asylum seekers in Egypt have gone up . A report by the Coalition for Organ-Failure Solutions (COFS), a non-profit international health and human rights organisation, indicates that human traffickers in the North African country are increasingly targeting Africans, especially refugees and other immigrants.
The abuses include removal of kidneys either by inducing consent, coercion, or outright theft. In some cases, sex trafficking has been associated with incidents of organ removal. In the past, a number of reports have suggested an increase in organ trafficking in Egypt, with the World Health Organisation (WHO) reporting in 2010 that the North African nation was one of the world’s “hotspots” for organ trafficking. Until recently, Egyptian law prohibited organ donation from the deceased so that organ donation was only from the living.
This resulted in an unregulated system which has only exacerbated the issue. Organ donations Last June saw the new law that banned payment for human organs; it restricted donations from live donors to family members of the fourth degree. As such, foreigners are banned from receiving organ donations and if any removal of a human organ is done without government permission, it is treated as murder in the first degree.
Furthermore, transplant procedures for the poor will be funded by the state. Following January's revolution, the implementation and enforcement of the law has not been a priority, says COFS. Also, it says that “the period of instability in Egypt and throughout the region will allow all forms of human trafficking of to flourish.” The COFS reports that out of 57 victims identified, 68 per cent were from Darfur in Sudan. Other victims were from Eritrea, Ethiopia, Somalia and a few from Jordan, Iraq and Syria. The total number of victims of organ trafficking in Egypt is estimated to be in the thousands, with Pakistan, China, Colombia, and the Philippines being the other hubs of organ trafficking.”
Jy kan verdere verslae deur te google by http://cofs.org/Ethics
Daar was onlangs oor 'n CNN-verslag wat die lot van die mense uit Afrika op pad na Europa. Dit het heelwat grusame tonele bevat.
Hello Jaco,
Beste F.C. Boot
Dankie vir jou respons.
Nou weet ek jy is Katoliek, en as sodanige sal dit natuurlik jou denke sterk beïnvloed. Ek als ateis, en gay boonop, gaan beslis nie die wêreld deur dieselfde bril met jou sal kan deel nie. Ek is redelik vertroud met die inhoud van wat jy hierbo namens die Katolieke kerk uiteengesit het, en ‘n paar uittreksels daaruit verskans wat ek in die verlede juis van die sluimerende mag in afwagting vir toekomstige wêreldheersing al gesê het.
Mbt. Die mis, die pous en sy “onfeilbaarheid” en kerklike dogma gaan ek, als ateis, nie as apologeet of as ambassadeur vir Protestante en Ortodokse Christene hier optree nie. (Kobus de Klerk, indien hy dit wil waag, kan homself daarmee bemoei).
Die rede hoekom ek my nie veel met die Protestante vergeleke met Katolieke op die wêreld-arena bemoei nie, is omdat, Protestante, weens hulle vele indelings, nooit ‘n wêreldwye, (wel hier en daar plaaslik,) ‘n politieke bedreiging kan word nie. Daar is ook geen Protestante politieke staat met die Vatikaan vergelykbaar, wat Katolieke ‘n voordeel op die politiese front ‘n voet in die deur by die meeste state verskaf nie. (Daar was ‘n tyd toe die Katolieke kerk omtrent die helfte van Italie als “Papal States” regeer het as persoonlike eiendom van die kerk, en Europese konings nie hulle aanstelling sonder voorafgegaande pouslike goedkeuring kon kry nie.)
Ek persoonlik het geen pyn met enige indiwidu se persoonlike geloof nie, wel indien enige geloof (soos Islam vandag), haar wil op andersdenkendes wil afstempel, en sodaniges wil kriminaliseer vir doeleindes om gestraf te word.
Jy skryf: “Jy sal sien dat die Pous geag word om die opvolger van Petrus te wees en dan ook deur die opvolgingsproses geag word Christus se verteenwoordiger hier op aarde te wees”. Hierdie dogma verskaf aan die pous beide spirituele en SEKULERE magte oor beide gelowige en ongelowiges, en weens haar onfeilbaarheid, wat geensins bevraagteken mag word nie. Hierdie stand van sake was redelik sigbaar in Katolieke lande gedurende die vorige eeu, veral lande soos Portugal, Brazil, en vandag in die Fillipyne ens.
Indien die Katoliekekerk haar sou bepaal by geestelike sake alleenlik soos die meeste ander godsdienste, sou ek nie ‘n pyn met haar hê nie, maar nee, met politiek wil sy haar ook in bemoei, ‘n reg in haar eie oë as Christus se “Vicar” hier op aarde.
‘n Voorbeeld onlangs nog in hierdie jaar van sekulêre inmenging deur die Katolieke kerk:
“British Prime Minister David Cameron said last week that Pope Francis, the first Latin American pontiff, had been wrong to say in 2012 that Britain had "usurped" the disputed islands from Argentina. The year before Bergoglio said that the islands were "ours", a view which most Argentinians share”. Reuters 18/3/13
"We come to pray for those who have fallen, sons of the homeland who set out to defend his mother, the homeland, to claim the country that is theirs and they were usurped," he (Bergoglio) said. "Many young people were there and could not return. Politics 14/3/13
"Go and kiss this land which is ours, and seem to us far away." Politics 14/3/13
(In hierdie geval Pouslike Katolieke Argentyn versus Protestante Engeland)
“A relentless Catholic Church campaign to derail a birth control law in the Philippines entered its final phase at the Supreme Court, with the verdict to have a monumental impact on millions of poor Filipinos”. Times Live – 9/7/13
Daar word nou der monumentele miljoene aan die pous se besoek aan Brazil gespandeer vir doeleindes van ‘n reklame foefie vir die pouslike amp, terwyl die armste Katolieke land, nl die Filipyne met ‘n gemiddelde daaglikse inkomste van omtrent 0.70$ (USA) krepeer, en ‘n bevolkingsaanwas van 1.8% per jaar het (van die hoogste ter wêreld), ‘n verdubbeling oor die afgelope 30 jaar tot die huidige 90 mil.
“The Church, had threatened Aquino (state president) and other supporters of the law with excommunication” Times Live – 9/7/13 “
(Catholic) Church leaders have helped lead two revolutions that toppled unpopular presidents in recent Philippine history, and continue to insist they have a right to influence the parliamentary and legal branches of government”. Times Live – 9/7/13
Die Jesuite binne die kerk was van sy aanvang in 1540 ‘n militante organisasie ten doel om gehoorsaamheid aan die pous te bewerkstellig. (‘n Ander bespreking vir die toekoms). Die huidige pous is ‘n Jesuit, en volgens die organisasie se eie eed, nie veronderstel was om die amp van pous te aanvaar het nie.
Waar jy skryf: , “is hul (pous en Vatikaan) nie verantwoordelik vir die wanpraktyke, soos bv korrupsie wat hul Departemente aangaan, tensy hulself aktiewe deelnemers is” Nie waar nie. In terme van internasionale kriminele vervolging vir “crimes against humanity”, kennis deur gesaghebbendes met passiewe beskouing van kriminele dade maak sodanige geghebbende skuldig aan vervolging. Bv Pous Pius gedurende die WOII was bewus van wat sy senior kardinale in Croatia aangevang het. Hy as politieke staatshoof en hoof van die kerk, het erkening aan die regering van die dag nie onttrek nie, asook nie sy betrokke kardinale getugtig nie. Inteendeel hy het amnestie aan die Katolieke diktator verleen en vervolging deur die Weste weerstaan toe die Katolieke diktator deur Westelike magte hul in Croatia overgegooi het, en die pous het gesorg dat die Katolieke diktator veilige amnestie in Argentinia verkry. Die feit dat pous Pius se direkte deelname, wel vermoed, maar nie bewys kon word nie, beteken nie dit het nie plaasgevind nie.
Die vorige en huidige pouse is volkome bewus van hulle kardinale se inmenging en dreigemente aan sekulêre gesaghebbendes in die Fillipyne, maar doen niks, wat pouslike ondersteuning vir hul aksies impliseer.
Jaco Fourie
Beste FC Boot
Dankie vir die skakels rakende die afgryse in Egipte en ander lande, veral mbt onwettige orgaanhandel. Nou net oor die afgelope uur van Vrede teruggekeer, en nou doodmoeg.
Sal definitief die skakels more opvolg.
Jaco Fourie
Wouter
Ek dink dit is 'n skreiende skande dat non-Katolieke belastingbetalers in Brazil verplig is om die pous se besoek ten duurste te help subsidieer, in 'n land met 'n hoë persentasie honger-lyende bevolking, alles net vir 'n reklamefoefie.
Jaco Fourie
Hello Jaco,
Beste JacoEn toe trap jy met oop oë in die gat van bevooroordeeldheid. Nee ek is nie Rooms Katoliek nie maar wel 'n lidmaat van die NG-kerk wat .Ek glo dat ' mens met gelyke mate moet meet en oordeel. Ek kan dus en het reeds aangetoon dat ateïste net so skuldig is en indien nie meer nie as gelowiges as dit kom by die vergryping van menseregte en nog erger massamoord.
Dit is 'n geval van die pot wat die ketel verwyt dat hy swart is. 'Crimes against humanity' is 'n redelik vaebegrip en word net toegepas waar die Westerse wêreld pas. In Sjina is derduisende mense van huisvesting ontneem om plek te maak vir groot Olimpiese spele. In ons buurland het 'n diktator honderde huise laat plat stoot om dat dit in sy oë krot buurte gevorm het. Hoekom maak jy nie 'n saak uit om die leiers vir vergrype voor die internasionale hof te sleep nie.
Jy hoef nie vir 'n verskoning te soek nie. Niemand stel belang in Zimbabwe nie behalwe die Sjinese en niemand sal dit waag om Sjinese leiers te dagvaar om voor die internasionale hof te verskyn om rekenskap te gee van hul ernstige menseregte vergrype.
Lees bv "By Marc Jayson Climaco New Media Content Specialist Chen Guangcheng is one of many human rights defenders in China who have been tortured, detained, and harassed by the government. Despite an already dire human rights situation the country, Chinese human rights defenders have become increasingly vulnerable over the past year and a half.
The Chinese government has increased its crackdown against its dissidents to prevent the wave of democracy movements that swept Arab countries from spreading into its borders. In 2011, at least 200 people, including many lawyers “disappeared,” and this year, the government is increasing its use of unofficial detention centers–so-called “black jails” – to hold dissidents.
The country has also sentenced several prominent activists to lengthy prison terms. “There’s been a significant crackdown on dissension, political discussion, even the rights and the activities of lawyers who advocate on behalf of people who have been poisoned from tainted food and medicines,” U.S. Ambassador to China Gary Locke said earlier this year. Human Rights First has urged the United States to go beyond occasional shows of support and establish a consistent policy of engagement with defenders and civil society in China and other countries. Reliable U.S. support–through embassies or other means–is critical in bolstering the work of human rights defenders around the world and increases protection to those at risk. Check out some of the cases in China that we are monitoring."
Jy sê: "Ek als ateis, en gay boonop, gaan beslis nie die wêreld deur dieselfde bril met jou sal kan deel nie."
Jou probleem is dat jy selektief sekere instansies uitsonder as synde die ergste sondebok te wees.
Dit moet teen hierdie tyd duidelik wees dat ons vanweë ons menslike natuur oor 'n kapasiteit beskik om tot op die laagste vlak te daal, soos die moorde van twee onskuldige kinders onlangs bewys het.
Dit is dan hierdie natuur wat hervorm moet word en waarvan ek ontslae moet raak om met my Skepper versoen te kan word en dit kan net plaasvind deur wonderbaarlike verlossing, bewerkstellig deur die lyding, sterwe en opstanding van Jesus Christus.
Hierdie volkome versoening sal voltooi word na die opstanding.
Wouter
Ons twee gaan verskil, en ek gaan nie met jou daaroor baklei nie. Soos ek reeds gesê het, het ek geen pyn met die Katolieke leek wat getrou in sy kerk aanbid nie, maar wel met die organisatoriese magte wat die kerk oor beskik en volgens hulle dogma, nie selfs in die toekoms van gaan afsien nie, nl sekulêre inmenging in die mensdom se lewens. Sou hulle hulle, soos ander gelowe, hulle uitsluitlik bemoei met die geestelike sake van hulle eie leke, dan het ek nie 'n probleem met hulle nie.
Hierdie siening (dogma) van hulle is dat omrede die pouse Christus (as wêreld koning) se aangestelde verteenwoordiger op aarde is met SY gedelegeerde magte, en tesame met die dogma van pouslike onfeilbaarheid, hulle die reg gee om mense (leke al dan nie) se sekulêre lewens vir hulle te reël. Wat die kerk se doen en late binne eie geledere is, gaan my nie aan nie. My beswaar is die kerk se inmenging in die sekulêre lewens van mense, inkluis diegene wat nie Katoliek is nie. Ek het dit hierbo ten toon gestel dit gebeur steeds vandag, viz a viz die direkte inmenging in die Filipyne: "and (they) continue to insist they have a right to influence the parliamentary and legal branches of government”. Times Live – 9/7/13. In hierdie geval, dat die hele volk, Katoliek, Moeslem, Protestant, Paganisties, Ateisties, ens nie tot die beskikbaarheid van kondome geregtig is nie. Peilings toon dat 47% van die bevolking ten gunste vir kondome is. Die ander kan hul vrywillig daarvan weerhou, maar nee, die kerk moet sy mag oor die hele nasie volgens sy goddelike reg, ten toonstel.
Die Katolieke Kerk is die rykste enkel instansie ter wêreld. Ek het nie beswaar dat die pous die kerk se leke in
enige deel van die wêreld besoek nie, maar op eie onkoste soos dit die geval met ander gelowe is. Die Braziliaanse staat bestaan nie suiwer uit Katolieke nie. Non Katolieke moet ook opdok, en selfs Katolieke daar maak grootskaalse beswaar. Die staat het reeds 40 mil Engelse pond (R700mil) vir die 5 dagse besoek bewillig, maar die vermetelheid van die Vatikaan om vir die regering te sê hulle moet 'n verdere 26 mil Engelse pond (R390mil) opdok!
Pous John Paul het om verskoning gevra vir vorige Katolieke afgryse, maar wanneer jy lees hoe Katolieke Biskoppe dreig om die Katolieke president van die Filipyne te ekskommunikeer indien hy nie aan hulle gehoor gee nie, is ek van mening dat John Paul as enkeling eg was, maar nie sy kardinale en opvolg pouse nie.
Mbt Die Falklands. Na die oorlog tussen Argentinia en Britanje, het 99% van die bevolking daar vir Britse oorheersing gestem. Die Falkland se bevolking bestaan vanuit hoofsaaklik Engelse burgery. Argentinia het nooit die eilande beset nie, maar weens hulle ligging, 300km vanaf die vasteland, voel Argentinia dit behoort aan haar.
Hierdie pous, toe Cardinaal in Argintinia wat hom selfs daar met die politiek van die land bemoei het, het 'n politieke uitspraak gemaak van so 'n aard, dat sy objektiewiteit nou as pous mbt Britanje selfs in die toekoms bevraagteken gaan word.
Jaco Fourie
Beste FC Boot
Ek gee toe ek het gefouteer mbt die veronderstelling dat jy Katoliek is, weens die feit dat jy jou saak soortgelyk als Katoliek gestel het, heel duidelik doelbewus ten doel as strik vir myself waarin ek wel geval het.
Dat dit my kwansuis nou as bevooroordeelde maak is jou persoonlike gevolgtrekking alleenlik, want my argumente hierbo uiteengesit het jy nie as on-objektief bewys nie. EN omrede jy dit nie kon doen nie, het jy gehamer op hoekom ek die Katolieke kerk uitsonder en nie die vele ander vergrype in die samelewe insluit nie.
Ek kon, en sal dit miskien nog in die toekoms doen, maar voorlopig konsentreer ek op die mag van die Katolieke Kerk wat non-lede se lewens ook wil reguleer (sien my respons aan Wouter hierbo).
Jaco Fourie
Hel Jaco,
Ek plaas die volgende verklaring van duidelik 'n BAIE groot woord in jou vermoë en 'n paar verbuiging daarvan waaroor jy nou reeds lankal struikel:
sekularisasie. 1. Die tot geld maak van kerklike goedere. 2. Die onteiening van kerklike eiendom deur die staat. 3. Verwêreldliking.
sekulariseer, ge=. 1. Kerklike goedere onder beheer van wêreldlinge of die staatsmag bring. 2. Verwêreldlik. ..sering. sekularisme. Leer wat alle godsdiens afsweer en godsdiensbeheer in alle lewensvorme teëstaan.
sekulêr, =e. 1. Niekerklik, wêreldlik. 2. Honderdjarig (Ou Romeinse feestelikhede). 3. Betreffende lang tydruimtes (bewegings v.d. aardkors).
sekulier, =e. Geestelike wat nie tot 'n orde of gemeente behoort nie.
Probeer nou self sin maak uit hierdie twak van jou: "Soos ek [Jaco Fourie] reeds gesê het, het ek geen pyn met die Katolieke leek wat getrou in sy kerk aanbid nie, maar wel met die organisatoriese magte wat die kerk oor beskik en volgens hulle dogma, nie selfs in die toekoms van gaan afsien nie, nl sekulêre inmenging in die mensdom se lewens.
En so ploeter die emosie van die slimjanne Jaco Fourie en sy patetieke bleeksiel sidekick Wouter Ferns, nes wafferse Kobus de Klerke, voort...
Nie te danke,
Cornelius Henn
Hello Jaco,
Beste Jaco
Nee ek het nie vir jou 'n strik gestel nie. Dit is jou eie vooroordeel wat jou daarin laat beland het. Die heel beste manier om 'n saak te hanteer as jy oortuig is dat jy reg is, is om direk met die oortreders inverbinding te tree. Skryf dus 'n brief aan die Pous en gebruik die volgende riglyne om te keer dat dit nie in die snippermandjie beland nie.
Instructions
1 Begin the letter by typing your address. Do not type your name at the top.
2 Skip a line, and type the full date. Type out the full name of the month to avoid confusion, and place the day first, followed by the month to follow European date conventions; for example: 6 August 2013
3 Type "His Holiness, (Name)" Apostolic Palace 00120 Vatican City For example: His Holiness, Pope ..... Apostolic Palace 00120 Vatican City
4 Skip another space, and type the salutation. You have two choices: "Most Holy Father" or "Your Holiness." Follow the salutation with a colon. Even if you aren't Catholic, these are the expected forms of salutation and it is proper etiquette to follow these conventions.
5 Proceed with the rest of your letter as you normally would, but make sure that your tone is respectful and formal.
6 Copy the Pope's name and address from the letter onto the envelope.
7 Take your letter to your local branch of the Post Office, to determine the correct postage.
Plaas jou brief ook hier sodat almal dit kan lees en vergelyk met die antwoord.
Sterkte.
Hello,